published on Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:26 PM MST
HELENA - At a marathon hearing Thursday, backers and opponents of a bill to expand gun rights in Montana painted distinctly different pictures of the state and its gun laws.
Proponents of House Bill 228 said gun owners in Montana are now held captive by gray areas in Montana statute that could lead to them being prosecuted for defending themselves with their firearm, or even displaying a pistol to deter would-be attackers.
But opponents said the laws already on the books work, and that the expanded gun-rights bill would hamper law enforcement’s ability to prosecute people whom they believe had wrongly used a gun.
The bill, sponsored by Rep. Krayton Kerns, R-Laurel, is almost identical to a bill carried by then-Rep. Jack Wells, R-Bozeman, in the 2007 session.
If passed, the bill would, among other things:
= allow people to carry a concealed weapon without a permit;
= greatly strengthen self-defense protections in the state;
= allow people to display their gun to deter an attack;
= allow people to use a gun whenever at risk of physical harm;
= and, in shooting incidents in which the person who fired the gun claimed self defense, require the state to prove that it was not.
More than 20 people lined up to support the bill, including a representative from the National Rifle Association and private citizens from Eureka to Joliet.
“Too often, the victim becomes the criminal in our system,” said Brian Judy of the NRA.
Kerns told the House Judiciary Committee that Montana is made safer by armed citizens. He cited the recent shooting in Glasgow, and said while the assailant in that case killed one and wounded two others, a private citizen with a gun was reportedly able to prevent the shooter from causing more damage.
The bill was crafted by Gary Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association. Marbut said he aims to clear up ambiguous parts of Montana’s gun law.
“We do have the right to bear arms, but there are gray areas in the law,” he said, including when it is OK to use a gun in self defense.
But Montana’s law-enforcement community, including Gallatin County Sheriff Jim Cashell, came out strongly against the bill at the hearing, saying it could escalate gun violence and make it easier for criminals to cite self defense to avoid prosecution.
Cashell said Montana cops already do a good job distinguishing when shootings are in self defense.
“Our job is to go in and sort these situations out, and we’re pretty good at it,” he said. “(HB) 228 creates an unreasonable burden.”
Dennis Paxinos, Yellowstone County attorney, said the bill fixes a problem that doesn’t exist.
“There is no case, there is no reason, for such a huge change in our criminal code,” he said.
Paxinos described a scenario in which two gangs approached each other in a public park. Under Kern’s bill, he said, it would be legal for both gangs to display their weapons to each other, then open fire.
“It eviscerates the tools we use now to combat these idiots,” he said.
He also took issue with a provision of the law that would require counties to cover attorney fees if a defendant claiming self defense is acquitted. Paxinos said that would have a “chilling effect” on prosecution.
Law-enforcement officials are supporting two other gun bills that also clarify self defense laws in Montana, but which are narrower in scope.
The committee took no action on Kerns’ bill.
Daniel Person can be reached at dperson@dailychronicle.com.
Reader Comments
whiskey wrote on Jan 23, 2009 10:42 AM:
Aksarben wrote on Jan 23, 2009 11:38 AM:
Aksarben wrote on Jan 23, 2009 11:40 AM:
druid_ wrote on Jan 23, 2009 12:40 PM:
nucleus wrote on Jan 23, 2009 1:49 PM:
springfield wrote on Jan 23, 2009 3:26 PM:
MeMyselfAndI wrote on Jan 23, 2009 3:50 PM:
Let's get a statistical readout of all the crimes that were actually prevented because the owner defended his/herself with a gun vs. how many gun deaths could have been prevented had this law been in effect.
Then let's talk. "
Basil wrote on Jan 23, 2009 8:00 PM:
Here is a collection of statistical information and discussion on the question.
http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=244
http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1310
Gun Accidents drop to 900 in 1998. Lowest number since 1903
Reflecting the value of safety efforts by industry, the National Rifle Association and many volunteer groups, a report by the National Safety Council (NSC) shows accidental firearms fatalities reached an all-time low of 900 in 1998 - the fewest fatal accidents since such record keeping began in 1903.
Fatal gun accidents have been declining for many years, but this was the first time the national total dropped below 1,000.
The 900 figure for 1998 represents a decline of 18%, from the previous year, a decline of 40% for the 10-year period 1989 to 1998, and a decline of 65 % since 1974 when 2,513 fatal firearms accidents occurred.
The Safety Council tracks unintentional injuries and deaths due to a variety of causes. The 900 accidental firearms-related fatalities reported by the NSC for 1998 compares with
* 41,200 deaths related to motor vehicle accidents,
* 16,600 in falls,
* 4,100 in drownings,
* 3,700 due to fire or burns,
* 3,200 due to choking, and
* 9,400 from poisoning, in the same year.
Firearms-related deaths in the home are at an historic low, as well. Of the total number of accidental fatalities attributed to firearms in 1998, 700 of these occurred in the home, a decline of 12.5% from the previous year.
Source: The New Gun Week, January 2000
Recent examples of citizens defending themselves with firearms:
http://www.progunleaders.org/Legis09/DefensiveUseOfForce.html
This bill clarifies grey areas in the law that could result in damage to law abiding victims of crime who used a firearm in self defense.
It also specifies that the presumption of iinnocence is in effect in Montana. Police and prosecutors always prefer if you have to prove your innocence, but our rights are best protected by the traditional view, that you do have the presumption of innocence.
The bill also establishes that you can carry a gun concealed by an article of clothing (the definition of "concealed") inside city limits in Montana, without a concealed carry permit. You already can do this in the big part of Montana that is outside of city limits. You can also currently carry a gun that is inside a purse or pack or briefcase (that is, not covered by an article of clothing) inside city limits without a permit, legally.
Some people dislike the idea of putting their name on a list of gun owners. That could potentially be unhealthy. (But some prefer to get the concealed carry license because a lot of other states have reciprocity agreements with Montana and they honor each other's permits. This is a good thing if you are travelling on the highways. A permit also makes it easier to purchase firearms. )
This is an important bill worthy of your active support. "
Donnie wrote on Jan 23, 2009 9:35 PM:
Here are some links for those who desire factual information on HB 228
The first link offers qualified explanations of each section of the bill and reasons the changes are needed. http://progunleaders.org/Self-defense/ Note Section's 1 and 11 as these may explain why certain prosecutors and police officials do not support HB 288 but instead have lent their support to the do nothing bills.
The complete text of Rep. Krayton Kerns bill HB 228 can be found at http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0228.htm
Call and or write your local legislators and ask them to support HB 228 "
futureMontanaRebel wrote on Jan 24, 2009 6:43 AM:
I recently moved from New Orleans where I lived for three years, so I can definitely speak to the crime and criminals there. Do you honestly think criminals care about a law banning concealed carry or a law requiring a license for concealed carry? Absolutely not!
Legislation such as this is essential to put honest, law-abiding citizens on a more even playing field with the criminals who seek to do them harm.
I applaud Montana in its efforts to maintain personal liberty! "
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bozexpat wrote on Jan 23, 2009 10:10 AM: